Posted By Senyors on 1/18/2024 5:34 PM

As a contributor to this thread back in 2020 (and whose needs and concerns are just as relevant today) I find these past few comments quite intriguing, as I've been gearing-up to migrate my online role-playing game system (built totally in DNN at https://browserquests.com) away from DNN to, well, something else (ABP Commercial, Oqtane, WordPress, Unity, GameMaker Pro, RPG Maker MZ, a custom solution in .NET 8... anything but DNN). My impression was that DNN had been dying a slow death for years and I've since migrated dozens of original DNN sites to WordPress (which, for me, made so much more sense, given their small, static, brochure-like nature). Now all I have left is my custom BrowserQuests game in DNN and I've been trying to figure out how best to migrate that, too.

These latest comments, however--coupled with the sheer magnitude of a rebuild (my system consists of hundreds of custom stored procedures, tens of thousands of lines of VB.NET code and a hacked Bootstrap 4 theme that serves my purposes nicely)--is making me rethink whether I truly need to migrate away from DNN. Indeed, I'd like to be convinced to stay!

Personally, I believe I've taken the technical aspects of the game as far as I can on my own--perhaps it's time for me to reach out and ask for help. At the same time, I just learned of the upcoming DNN Virtual Conference coming up in a few weeks, which actually looks quite interesting--I may attend that as well. I think that if I could be reasonably assured that there's little reason to migrate away from DNN for the next few years at least, I'd prefer to stay.

Curious to what others think...

 

DNN is alive and well.  The community is thriving.  As a matter of fact, we are approaching the release of DNN 10!  If you are interested, please come and join our Southern Fried DNN meetup in just a few minutes where we will be previewing DNN 10 and some of the amazing work that is going into it.  If you can't catch it live, you can watch the replay on the Southern Fried DNN YouTube channel.

I have yet to see any need to migrate away from DNN.  DNN is rock solid and the framework on which it is built is not going away any time soon.

References:

• https://learn.microsoft.c...rosoft-net-framework
• https://learn.microsoft.c...faq/dotnet-framework

As you can see, later versions of .NET Framework follow the life cycles of the operating systems on which they are included.  So, bottom line, DNN will be alive for many years to come!

 

Posted By David Poindexter on 1/18/2024 2:52 PM

DNN is alive and well.  The community is thriving.  As a matter of fact, we are approaching the release of DNN 10!  

[...]

DNN is rock solid and the framework on which it is built is not going away any time soon.

[...]

So, bottom line, DNN will be alive for many years to come!

Heck yeah! 🌴😎🤙🏽

IMO the DNN community has been increasingly active for the last years. Since we are now in control of the code base instead of being tied to the commercial product, there is more room to move forward.

Having said that, your questions are valid. It is always a good thing to evaluate your situation periodically. For me, there are several things to consider when it comes to larger applications.

• New kids on the block: these are the most difficult to evaluate. All have great marketing websites but you don't know the maturity of the product. In reality you need to work with a platform for at least a year full time before you master something new. Of course, with the risk that you need to pull back at one point. It is an investment for years to come which should not be taken lightly. This regards not just the development tools but certainly the features for content management as well.  
• For any new platform: to get to a level where you can be really productive, this also takes time. I can read and write with DNN and the extensions within the ecosystem. I know my way around to get things done and if I stumble upon something, 9 out of 10 times I know what is going on and how to solve this.
• DNN takes security very seriously. This is something people take for granted but it is a foundation we all rely on. For small display websites, you might want to consider Wordpress but there is no way I would ever recommend that to anyone when it comes to more complex applications
• The DNN community is very active and accessible. If you look at other open source initiatives, it happens quite often that it is driven by 1 or 2 people. Many times questions are not understood or not answered at all. Not blaming anyone because it is all volunteers working. But the DNN community has never let me down.  

What has caused the impression of DNN going downwards is the amount of extensions being available. What in fact happened is that we are past the time when everyone who was able to put a Bootstrap snippet into an extension boiler plate, tried to make a buck in the DNN store. That's when you had extensions like a timeline, a caroussel or accordions. Nowadays, these are widely available within more mature and generic extensions. So, in fact the extension that are still around are better, more mature and versatile.

Personally, when it comes to my own business, I prefer evolution above revolution. Evolution gives me the opportunity to move forward in a controlled manner. Revolution by definition, shakes things up and includes a number of uncertainties. 

My way to move forward is by using 2SXC or Plant an App or the Mandeeps extensions which all run on DNN and allow for me to create pretty much everything I want.

I recommend attending DNN Summit to get more opinions and the latest news. Because you are not the only one with these questions. Feel free to engage as much as you want in this forum because we're happy to share :-)  

Hey team!  If you haven't seen it already, I really encourage you to read Mitch's latest blog post about the future of DNN.  Please comment there and/or here and let's get this ship steaming ahead as a community!  💪🏽 

https://dnncommunity.org/...e-in-2025-and-Beyond

No matter where and how we move our beloved community forward, I'm personally excited about the conversations we're all going to have to find our way there.  My personal interests so far include:  

• Knowing there is a viable path forward for most stakeholders
• Increasing the visibility and business incentives to adopt DNN 
• Improving the perspective of past/future adopters of what DNN is  
• Ensuring there is a public roadmap which includes features that aren't only exciting to developers 
• Finishing the file managment (or replacing it)

And I know there is a stark divide around the concept of dependencies within DNN that we might ship.  I get it.  But, it's far more important to lower the barrier of entry for new designers, developers, and businesses in general.  It makes no business sense to ignore the massive communities and support we'd get if we actually adopted things like the latest Bootstrap - instead of forcing people to figure out DNN.  They should only know ASP.NET and the most popular frameworks. 

This is how we got so huge in the beginning... We adopted every popular thing we saw and then blogged about it.  Should we be more considerate about which new dependencies - YES!  In fact we should be strategic...  If a framework has millions of people adopting and contributing to it (like Boostrap), then this is a safe bet for the foreseeable future.  Just an example...  

I'm excited to read and see all of your thoughts.  If you're limited to chiming in here or in the blog comments, great.  If you're able to blog here (or elsewhere), that's awesome too!  Thanks in advance for your passion and ideas!  💪🏽 😎🤙🏽🤙🏽 

A few points here, this is not just my personal opinion but things that were discussed and agreed upon by those that actually contribute a lot to the platform.

- We cannot be extensible and also enforce any popular framework at the core level (like bootstrap). We have spent a lot of efforts working on being neutral to allow anyone to use bootstrap, tailwind or whatever else they want. We have spent a lot of time providing a dependency free out-of-box theme for that exact reason. If bootstrap is something that people want a lot, maybe creating AND MAINTAINING a free open source theme could be an option to help people that want it hit the road running.
- We do not have funding and cannot respect a roadmap as we only move forward when contributions comes in.

Will, what do you mean by "Finishing the file management (or replacing it)"?

My personal thoughts on this subject are currently focused on the MVC pipeline.

Key Points on DNN Conversion to .NET Core

• WebForms Limitations: WebForms is outdated, increasingly unsupported, and poses compatibility issues for modern browsers. Its decline is inevitable, making it less attractive for developers and organizations.
• Developer Adoption: Modern developers prefer technologies that are relevant to their careers. The reliance on WebForms discourages new talent from engaging with DNN.
• MVC Pipeline as a Solution: The introduction of the MVC pipeline is a significant step forward. It enables the removal of WebForms from the public website, offering a more modern and maintainable architecture. The pipeline is currently in beta and under development (DNN MVC Pipeline).
• Backward Compatibility: The MVC pipeline is optional. Existing modules will continue to function unless the pipeline is activated, ensuring a non-breaking transition path.
• Migration Path: Moving DNN to .NET Core is feasible. The MVC pipeline is the first step, followed by a gradual migration. However, at some point, breaking changes will be necessary, and only modules using the MVC architecture will remain compatible.
• Strategic Decision: The community must decide whether to evolve DNN by merging the MVC pipeline and planning a .NET Core migration, or to archive the current project and start a new, simplified .NET Core-based CMS.

Rocket CDS

A few years ago, I chose to continue working with DNN and consolidated our in-house codebase into a unified suite of modules and features, leveraging the DNN API. All core functionality was migrated to .NET Standard to ensure future compatibility with .NET Core. We have since open-sourced these core modules and functionalities under the name RocketCDS: https://www.rocket-cds.org/

Conclusion

Merging the MVC pipeline into DNN and planning for .NET Core migration is the preferred path. If this is not possible due to organizational constraints, creating a new DNN .NET Core CMS with a streamlined codebase should be considered.

Thanks David Lee,

I just want to re-iterate regarding:
> Merging the MVC pipeline into DNN and planning for .NET Core migration is the preferred path. If this is not possible due to organizational constraints, creating a new DNN .NET Core CMS with a streamlined codebase should be considered.

We more than welcome it, the only contraints are the exact same constraints we would impose for ANY contribution, we need a pull request so we can review the changes, run some testing, check for performance, compatibility, upgrades, security, etc. The very same we would do for any other type of contribution. So there is no "special organizational constraints" here. We just need to have a PR so we can start that process. But in principle, we are all on board with an MVC pipeline that can run next to the existing one, this again is the best solution we have had in years to allow such transition.